If you have a border, then set the line to None the Lines disappear
then resets to 0.05.  Is this a problem? 

.05 is the default setting for a new line.  If there is not a border,
having this set to .05 shouldn't be an issue.

Is this acceptable?

There is a consistency problem.

If you click on the simple border icon, the "Line" goes to its
default, which is '0.05'.  That's fine.  If you click on 'None', you
expect the border to go away, which it does, and you expect the "Line"
setting to remain 'None', which it doesn't.  I see.  Even if the "Line
arrangement" is set to no lines, the default width is 0.05.  No,
that's not very good. You click on "1.00 pt" and expect to see a
border, but you don't because you haven't clicked on the right "Line
arrangement".

I think the problem is that the "None" in the "Line" list is redundant
with the "Line arrangement" setting of 'no lines'.  This causes the
confusion.

Here's a suggestion:

Remove "None" from the "Line" list altogether.  Deactivate (gray
out) the "Line" list altogether unless a "Line arrangement"
containing lines is chosen.

This will make it plain that there will be no border until one sets
the "Line arrangement", and get rid of my original complaint as well.

Here's my take on this:  If I select a border (Line arrangement), 
then, as you suggest, the Lines list should be activated.  But when I 
click None there, it should not deactivate the Line Arrangement.  
This would allow an invisible border with a space to contents, which 
is a handy way to have a paragraph with special margins all the way 
around.  As it is now, you have to put the border to .05, and change 
the color to white (or whatever your paper color is), in order to 
have an invisible border.

In summary, I like your suggestions, but I'd add that a line setting 
of None should not disable any Line Arrangement setting.

Agreed, I am marking this for All Platforms, and setting this as a new
issue so the developers can look at it.

Thanks for your support of OOo.

SBA->FT: I think this is one for you to decide.

Matt:

Or how about:

Make the dialog so that it doesn't de-activate the "Spacing to
contents" section of the dialog when the empty "Line arrangement" is
selected.

Seems to me what you want is a space, not an invisible border.

To me (and in HTML tables, certainly) a border around a container is a
different thing from the spacing from a container to its contents.

Yes, Have the No Border not deactivate the Spacing to Contents 
feature, but deactivate the Line features (width, type and color). 
That is, Line should only be active if one side or more has a 
border, but the Spacing to Contents should always be available.

This should work this way for any object which can have a border, in 
any of the apps.

Matt

Hi, I need to forward this to our Writer expert in our team.
Frank, please take over, thx.

FL: I propose the following for OO.org 2.0
- Remove "-None-" entry from border style list box
- Allow to have spacing for Writer frames regardless if there is a
visible boarder defined or not (already possible for tables)

FL: Please change dialog accordingly.

- Allow to have spacing for Writer frames regardless if there is a
visible boarder defined or not (already possible for tables)
os->od: 
This is your job - if possible. I will change the dialog afterwards.

OD->FL (14.10.2003):
- ad "Remove "-None-" entry from border style list box":
As discussed, this entry is somehow redundant, but you can also switch
off single lines using this entry. Thus, this entry provides a usefull
user interface action. Please, re-think, if we want to remove it. (If
yes, please submit a extra issue)

- ad "Allow to have spacing for Writer frames regardless if there is a
visible boarder defined or not (already possible for tables)":
For paragraghs this doesn't makes sense. For paragraphs without a
border  the distances can be defined on pane 'Indents & Spacing'.
For frames (as for tables) this makes sense and will improve our
interoperability to MS Word. Please submit an extra issue with target
OOo 2.0.

- defect inside the border dialog:
If you switched off a border line using the entry '-None-', the
corresponding entry field to enter the spacing to content stays in
mode enterable. This defect should be fixed with this issue.

.